[rescue] eSATA on SPARC - or SCSI->eSATA converters

[Jerry Kemp]

It seems a couple of months ago, we had a discussion regarding adding SATA/eSATA drives to SPARC based systems.

One of the options that came up during the discussion, was to not even try to use a SAS or SATA host bus adapter, but, instead, to
just use a SCSI card+cabling, and to add SCSI->SATA converters to add SATA drive(s) to the SCSI chain.

I'm usually pretty good about archiving data, but I can't seem to locate that discussion again in my personal archives.

Hoping that who ever shared that information could share the specifics of that again.

FWIW, the host would be a Sun T1000 with a PCI-E 1.0a expansion bus, specifically, the old one I purchased from Mr. Bill. It is
going to live in a different enclosure with different/quieter/larger fans.

And just to ask directly, even though the specific cards may not matter, for who ever is already doing this, wondering what PCI-E
SCSI HBA you used, and also, what SCSI->SATA converter/adapters you used.

TIA,

Jerry
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[Mike Spooner]

SCSI-SATA bridge box: 3.5" SCSI carrier for 2.5" SATA drive: ACARD
ARS-2320 or ACARD ARS-2160, versions exist for 68-pin or SCA on the SCSI
side, which is both LVD and SE capable.

Both work beautifully in my SPARCstation-10 connected to Antares Wide
Ultra SCSI SBus HBA.

Kind of expensive though - #200, although I was lucky enough to get some
resulting from an expired industrial support contract for a bit less.

-- Mike Spooner

--------- Original Message ---------
From: Jerry Kemp
To: The Rescue List
Date: Thu Feb 08 20:15:12 GMT+00:00 2018
Subject: [rescue] eSATA on SPARC - or SCSI->eSATA converters
It seems a couple of months ago, we had a discussion regarding adding
SATA/eSATA drives to SPARC based systems.

One of the options that came up during the discussion, was to not even
try to use a SAS or SATA host bus adapter, but, instead, to
just use a SCSI card+cabling, and to add SCSI->SATA converters to add
SATA drive(s) to the SCSI chain.

I'm usually pretty good about archiving data, but I can't seem to locate
that discussion again in my personal archives.

Hoping that who ever shared that information could share the specifics of
that again.

FWIW, the host would be a Sun T1000 with a PCI-E 1.0a expansion bus,
specifically, the old one I purchased from Mr. Bill. It is
going to live in a different enclosure with different/quieter/larger
fans.

And just to ask directly, even though the specific cards may not matter,
for who ever is already doing this, wondering what PCI-E
SCSI HBA you used, and also, what SCSI->SATA converter/adapters you used.

TIA,

Jerry
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rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
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[Michael-John Turner]

Post by Jerry Kemp
FWIW, the host would be a Sun T1000 with a PCI-E 1.0a expansion bus,
specifically, the old one I purchased from Mr. Bill. It is going to live
in a different enclosure with different/quieter/larger fans.

If I'm not mistaken a T1000 has an onboard SAS contoller - SATA will Just
Work(tm). Of course the standard chassis will only take 2.5" disks but I
believe a bracket is available for a 3.5" drive.

Cheers, MJ

[Peter Stokes]

Hi

The T1000 could be ordered with either 1 x 3.5 or 1/2 2.5" from memory

Peter
---------------------------
Peter Stokes
Ashlyn Computer Services
Mbl: 07977 532320
---------------------------

Post by Michael-John Turner

Post by Jerry Kemp
FWIW, the host would be a Sun T1000 with a PCI-E 1.0a expansion bus,

specifically, the old one I purchased from Mr. Bill. It is going to live in a
different enclosure with different/quieter/larger fans.

Post by Michael-John Turner
If I'm not mistaken a T1000 has an onboard SAS contoller - SATA will Just

Work(tm). Of course the standard chassis will only take 2.5" disks but I
believe a bracket is available for a 3.5" drive.

Post by Michael-John Turner
Cheers, MJ
--

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Post by Michael-John Turner
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[Lionel Peterson]

Apparently the original configuration was 1x 3.5" SATA , based on the
linked-to PDF with a copyright date of 2006:

http://www.dedicatedsunservers.com/pdf/t1000.pdf

Other sites discuss firmware updates to support dual 2.5" SAS drives.

If not for the deafening roar such a machine makes, it would be a perfect Sun
machine to have in the rack in my garage - small, low power, lots of cores,
etc.

Lionel

Post by Peter Stokes
The T1000 could be ordered with either 1 x 3.5 or 1/2 2.5" from memory

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[Jerry Kemp]

Post by Lionel Peterson
Apparently the original configuration was 1x 3.5" SATA , based on the
http://www.dedicatedsunservers.com/pdf/t1000.pdf

That was my (personal) recollection also, FWIW.

Post by Lionel Peterson
Other sites discuss firmware updates to support dual 2.5" SAS drives.

I did not need to do that. Connectors are there internally for (2) drives. I never acquired an official Sun dual 2.5" drive
mount, but I fabricated my own. Although the system runs fine with a single 3.5" SATA drive, I never had much luck attempting to
use matched sets of 2.5" SATA drives internally. Specifically, had no problem formatting and partitioning them, or even laying
down data. At least initially. Unfortunately, the system just seemed to kill these pretty quickly, and after cycling several sets
of matched drives, I finally passed on that endeavor.

Post by Lionel Peterson
If not for the deafening roar such a machine makes, it would be a perfect Sun
machine to have in the rack in my garage - small, low power, lots of cores,

I could not agree more. The T2000's are *significantly* quieter IMHO. My plan here is to not use the OEM small and very noisy
fans. I'm planning to put the system board and P/S in another enclosure, then replace those fans using larger, quieter ones. Those
OEM fans were horrible. I'm not planning to cut stuff up, or do anything that would preclude putting it back in its original
physical configuration.

I have had this system for several years, and I haven't done a whole lot with it, primarily due to the noise.

When the Solaris 11.4 beta was released a few weeks ago, It was a real eye opener, being that not only this box, but all my
accumulated T-series equipment, being T-3 and older, are now obsolete in the eyes of Sun/Oracle, and no longer capable of running
the (soon to be) current version of Solaris.

Jerry

Post by Lionel Peterson
etc.
Lionel

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[Michael-John Turner]

Post by Lionel Peterson
If not for the deafening roar such a machine makes, it would be a perfect Sun
machine to have in the rack in my garage - small, low power, lots of cores,
etc.

Indeed. I'd love a quiet, modern SPARC system at home but AFAICS such a
thing doesn't exist (the Ultra 45 was probably the last of those and
they're /crazy expensive/ on the second hand market). Are any of the more
modern SPARC systems as quiet as a modern x86 server?

Cheers, MJ

[Peter Stokes]

Sent from my iPhone

Post by Michael-John Turner

Post by Lionel Peterson
If not for the deafening roar such a machine makes, it would be a perfect Sun
machine to have in the rack in my garage - small, low power, lots of cores,
etc.

Indeed. I'd love a quiet, modern SPARC system at home but AFAICS such a

thing doesn't exist (the Ultra 45 was probably the last of those and they're
/crazy expensive/ on the second hand market). Are any of the more modern SPARC
systems as quiet as a modern x86 server?

The U45 and U25 are expensive because a certain (government?) organisation in
US hoovered a large quantity up of the second user ones over the last 3 years.
The knock on is that the 2500 and 1500 have also kept a decent price. Couple
that with the U45/25 being the last of the desk side units and a recipe for
long lasting demand.

The other option is the V250 but here it is the PSUs which are in demand as
well as the motherboard being the same as the red 2500.

So no real cheap options, but the 150 red is probably the best option.

Peter

Post by Michael-John Turner
Cheers, MJ
--

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Post by Michael-John Turner
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[Michael-John Turner]

Post by Peter Stokes
The U45 and U25 are expensive because a certain (government?) organisation
in US hoovered a large quantity up of the second user ones over the last 3 years.
The knock on is that the 2500 and 1500 have also kept a decent price. Couple
that with the U45/25 being the last of the desk side units and a recipe for
long lasting demand.

Interesting. I've noticed that Blade 1500s/2500 are also pretty pricey
(certainly pricier than I'd expect for hardware of that age).

Post by Peter Stokes
The other option is the V250 but here it is the PSUs which are in demand
as well as the motherboard being the same as the red 2500.
So no real cheap options, but the 150 red is probably the best option.

Those are all fairly old, unfortunately. I see that M3000s (and M4000s, but
that's more than I need) are pretty cheap, but I'm guessing those are going
to sound horrendous :(

Cheers, MJ

[Peter Stokes]

Post by Michael-John Turner

Post by Peter Stokes
The U45 and U25 are expensive because a certain (government?) organisation

in US hoovered a large quantity up of the second user ones over the last 3
years.

Post by Michael-John Turner

Post by Peter Stokes
The knock on is that the 2500 and 1500 have also kept a decent price. Couple
that with the U45/25 being the last of the desk side units and a recipe for
long lasting demand.

Interesting. I've noticed that Blade 1500s/2500 are also pretty pricey

(certainly pricier than I'd expect for hardware of that age).

The 2500 and 1500 have kept prices because they are the next in line to the
45/25 and are the end of the line...

There is also a regular second user market for them as I guess they were used
as front ends for various kit and I think they were a supported CAD station
for some graphics packages.

Post by Michael-John Turner

Post by Peter Stokes
The other option is the V250 but here it is the PSUs which are in demand as

well as the motherboard being the same as the red 2500.

Post by Michael-John Turner

Post by Peter Stokes
So no real cheap options, but the 150 red is probably the best option.

Those are all fairly old, unfortunately. I see that M3000s (and M4000s, but

that's more than I need) are pretty cheap, but I'm guessing those are going to
sound horrendous :(
Yes, but the U45 only has a 1.6Ghz UltraSparc which is pretty old now and none
of the deskside kit is Sol 11 supported.

Peter
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[Jerry Kemp]

Post by Lionel Peterson
If not for the deafening roar such a machine makes, it would be a perfect Sun
machine to have in the rack in my garage - small, low power, lots of cores,
etc.

I'm actually using the very system that Mr. Bill was making those comments about. And in stock configuration, I wouldn't disagree
with a word of what Mr. Bill (and Lionel) are commenting on. Very loud system.

I'm planning to pull the system board and power supply from its original enclosure, put those in a larger enclosure, then replace
the OEM small fans with some quieter, larger fans to address cooling.

That issue out of the way, I see the single PCI-E expansion slot as the biggest limiting factor in having this system as any type of
at-home desktop.

Indeed. I'd love a quiet, modern SPARC system at home but AFAICS such a thing doesn't exist (the Ultra 45 was probably the last of
those and they're /crazy expensive/ on the second hand market). Are any of the more modern SPARC systems as quiet as a modern x86
server?
Cheers, MJ

I'm doing this with the T1000, as that is a system I have, and paid for, that I haven't gotten a lot of use out of, but really need
to. If I was spending that money today and duplicating this experiment, and specifically staying with SPARC, given my planned
desktop style usage and budget, and I would expect most peoples, I would be doing this with an M3000.

Jerry
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[Jerry Kemp]

and it does. Mr. Bill was gifted an early T1000, which shipped, I believe, with a single 3.5" 1Tb SATA drive internally.

But this isn't the point of my question.

I have one expansion slot that, per the specs I look up, is PCI-E 1.0a.

At this point I am looking to acquire some type of PCI-E SCSI adapter, and in coordination with the ACARD SCSI->SATA adapters
mentioned by Mike Spooner yesterday, attach some additional storage (external) storage.

Thank you,

Jerry

Post by Jerry Kemp
FWIW, the host would be a Sun T1000 with a PCI-E 1.0a expansion bus, specifically, the old one I purchased from Mr. Bill. It is
going to live in a different enclosure with different/quieter/larger fans.

If I'm not mistaken a T1000 has an onboard SAS contoller - SATA will Just Work(tm). Of course the standard chassis will only take
2.5" disks but I believe a bracket is available for a 3.5" drive.
Cheers, MJ

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[Peter Stokes]

Hi Jerry

The supported controller is the 375-3357 which is a LSI22320SLE, used to be
quite expensive second hand as Sun versions, not sure now as that was some
time ago. The generic card may work just fine.

Peter
---------------------------
Peter Stokes
Ashlyn Computer Services
Mbl: 07977 532320
---------------------------

Post by Jerry Kemp
and it does. Mr. Bill was gifted an early T1000, which shipped, I believe,

with a single 3.5" 1Tb SATA drive internally.

Post by Jerry Kemp
But this isn't the point of my question.
I have one expansion slot that, per the specs I look up, is PCI-E 1.0a.
At this point I am looking to acquire some type of PCI-E SCSI adapter, and

in coordination with the ACARD SCSI->SATA adapters mentioned by Mike Spooner
yesterday, attach some additional storage (external) storage.

Post by Jerry Kemp
Thank you,
Jerry

Post by Michael-John Turner

Post by Jerry Kemp
FWIW, the host would be a Sun T1000 with a PCI-E 1.0a expansion bus,

specifically, the old one I purchased from Mr. Bill. It is going to live in a
different enclosure with different/quieter/larger fans.

Post by Jerry Kemp

Post by Michael-John Turner
If I'm not mistaken a T1000 has an onboard SAS contoller - SATA will Just

Work(tm). Of course the standard chassis will only take 2.5" disks but I
believe a bracket is available for a 3.5" drive.

Post by Jerry Kemp

Post by Michael-John Turner
Cheers, MJ

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[Michael-John Turner]

Post by Jerry Kemp
But this isn't the point of my question.

Ah, fair enough - sorry, missed that.

Post by Jerry Kemp
At this point I am looking to acquire some type of PCI-E SCSI adapter, and
in coordination with the ACARD SCSI->SATA adapters mentioned by Mike
Spooner yesterday, attach some additional storage (external) storage.

What type of external storage? If you don't have something in place
already, a SAS enclosure may give you the most bang-for-buck. Something
like a Lenovo SA120, Dell MD1000 or HP MSA60. Looking at the Oracle 11 HCL,
LSI SAS2008 HBAs (eg, the LSI 9207-8e) are supported so you could use one
of those to hook it up to the T1000.

Alternatively, use one of those supported SAS HBAs with the right cabling
to hook up your SATA drives in whatever enclosure they're currently in.
IMHO, going native SAS (which works fine with SATA) is better than a
SCSI->SATA bridge.

[1] http://www.oracle.com/webfolder/technetwork/hcl/data/s11ga/components/views/disk_controller_all_results.page1.html

Cheers, MJ

[Jerry Kemp]

Please see inline comments.

What type of external storage? If you don't have something in place already, a SAS enclosure may give you the most bang-for-buck.
Something like a Lenovo SA120, Dell MD1000 or HP MSA60. Looking at the Oracle 11 HCL, LSI SAS2008 HBAs (eg, the LSI 9207-8e) are
supported so you could use one of those to hook it up to the T1000.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, spot on, just enough for a couple of mirrored 3.5" drives.

Alternatively, use one of those supported SAS HBAs with the right cabling to hook up your SATA drives in whatever enclosure they're
currently in. IMHO, going native SAS (which works fine with SATA) is better than a SCSI->SATA bridge.
[1] http://www.oracle.com/webfolder/technetwork/hcl/data/s11ga/components/views/disk_controller_all_results.page1.html

Not sure if you've seen what Oracle has dropped support for/added to the obsolete list for Solaris 11.4. If you haven't review the
list, Sparc wise, T4 and newer supported. T3 systems and older obsoleted.

Jerry

Cheers, MJ

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[Michael-John Turner]

Post by Jerry Kemp
Thanks for the reply. Yes, spot on, just enough for a couple of mirrored 3.5" drives.

Ah, that's fairly straightforward. I'd get myself something LSI
SAS2008-based (Dell H200/H310, IBM M1015, Fujitsu D2607), flash it with IT
firmware and hook up the drives with an SFF-8087 to SATA cable. Of course,
that's all based on reading the Solaris HCL and Oracle don't exactly make
it clear whether it's supported on Solaris/SPARC or x86 (or am I reading it
incorrectly?).

Post by Jerry Kemp
Not sure if you've seen what Oracle has dropped support for/added to the
obsolete list for Solaris 11.4. If you haven't review the list, Sparc
wise, T4 and newer supported. T3 systems and older obsoleted.

I read your earlier message and looked for the 11.4 supported models but
couldn't seem to find it (only 11.3).

Cheers, MJ

[Jerry Kemp]

Here is the relevant page from the Solaris 11.4 release notes.

<https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37838_01/html/E60973/glmru.html>

Jerry

Post by Jerry Kemp
Thanks for the reply. Yes, spot on, just enough for a couple of mirrored 3.5" drives.

Ah, that's fairly straightforward. I'd get myself something LSI SAS2008-based (Dell H200/H310, IBM M1015, Fujitsu D2607), flash it
with IT firmware and hook up the drives with an SFF-8087 to SATA cable. Of course, that's all based on reading the Solaris HCL and
Oracle don't exactly make it clear whether it's supported on Solaris/SPARC or x86 (or am I reading it incorrectly?).

Post by Jerry Kemp
Not sure if you've seen what Oracle has dropped support for/added to the obsolete list for Solaris 11.4. If you haven't review
the list, Sparc wise, T4 and newer supported. T3 systems and older obsoleted.

I read your earlier message and looked for the 11.4 supported models but couldn't seem to find it (only 11.3).
Cheers, MJ

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[Bill Bradford]

Post by Jerry Kemp
and it does. Mr. Bill was gifted an early T1000, which shipped, I believe,
with a single 3.5" 1Tb SATA drive internally.

Yep.

Original pictures from when I received it in 2006ish:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrbill/sets/72057594124431136/

Bill

[Bill Bradford]

Post by Michael-John Turner
If I'm not mistaken a T1000 has an onboard SAS contoller - SATA will
Just Work(tm). Of course the standard chassis will only take 2.5"
disks but I believe a bracket is available for a 3.5" drive.

The one I had (and sold) had a single 3.5" drive. From the factory.

Bill

[Michael-John Turner]

Post by Bill Bradford
The one I had (and sold) had a single 3.5" drive. From the factory.

Whoops, my mistake. No idea why I thought they only ever shipped with 2.5"
drives?

Cheers, MJ