Discussion:
[rescue] 1920x1080 on LCD with a TGX+ :-) (was: Re: FB resolution in PROM)
Romain Dolbeau
2015-11-07 21:03:58 UTC
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1920x1200 are either non-existent or very expensive, I've decided to see if
it was possible to fix the output instead (inspired by Mouse for an SX,
comment quoted below).
Still no idea how to change the video settings of a FFB or a SX, but since
it's documented for the TurboGX(+), I figured I'd give it a go.

The FB FAQ list a limited number of supported pixel clocks; I think 189 MHz
is also supported at least on the TGX+ (see the attribute 'oscillators' of
the device). However I couldn't leverage this clock, my monitor wouldn't
sync. Clocks not on this list would not set at all (the TGX+ falls back to
1152x900x66). If someone find a working setting with a pixel clock of 189
Mhz, please share (settings + LCD model :-)

However, by carefully tuning the settings for a 135 MHz clock, I did
actually succeed in getting a 1920x1080 setting that works with my test
monitor :-) (An Iiyama ProLite E2473HS this time).

This is the setting that works (... for me):

" 135000000,61869,54,20,222,20,1920,18,9,18,1080,COLOR,0OFFSET"

It gives 1920x1080 @ 54/55 Hz. I have a setting for 60 Hz that syncs but
the luminosity is wrong (lighter in the top 10-15% of the screen, darker
below, a bit worrying): "
135000000,67500,60,20,40,20,1920,18,9,18,1080,COLOR,0OFFSET" (the
horizontal sync pulse is way too short to be considered sane).

Somehow the "install-console" bit in the nvramrc doesn't work and I need to
"install-console" by hand at the OK prompt. Haven't figured out that one
yet.

Once booted, X retains the 1920x1080 settings and works just fine :-) Old
hardware, but it was properly design to be a bit future-proof :-) Too bad
the VGA inputs are disappearing fast...

Cordially,
--
Romain Dolbeau
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Romain Dolbeau
2016-02-27 17:45:23 UTC
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Post by Romain Dolbeau
The FB FAQ list a limited number of supported pixel clocks; I think 189
MHz is also supported at least on the TGX+

Well I investigated this in details, and the FB FAQ is a bit wrong. While
only clocks appearing on the list (+189 MHz) can be set by
'set-resolution', you can coerce a TGX+ into using other clocks, if you
really want to :-)

The document "Sbus_cgsix_graphics_cards800-5114-10.pdf" describe the TGX+
in details and mention a programmable clock generator. A quick look at the
card itself reveals an ICS1562A, fully documented in "DSAE0055356.pdf".
Checking the Forth code, the words ics74, ics94, ics216 and so on (used for
frequency of 74.25, 94.5 and 216 MHz and so on) are obvious candidates.
They contain values to set the registers of the ICS1562A to the proper
frequency, easily confirmed by the documentation.

So it's easy to create alternate words for alternate clocks. However,
since the possible values are hard-wired in the Forth code, the new words
are not picked up by "set-resolution". But by going to the trouble of
recoding most of the call tree of set-resolution, then it's possible to use
the new words and output almost arbitrary clocks, and therefore video
settings.

I didn't get all that I wanted - the LCDs won't sync properly to many
signals, and only display partial resolutions of others (such as 1920x1200
displayed as 1600x1200 by a SyncMaster T260). Perhaps the LCDs aren't
comfortable with the composite sync.

But I was still able to sync perfectly to some VESA settings such as:

( VESA 1024x768 @ 75 ; work on SyncMaster 713BM & VisionMaster Pro 410 )
: r1024x768x75 " 78750000,60022,75,16,96,176,1024,1,3,28,768,COLOR,0OFFSET"
;
( VESA 800x600 @ 72 ; work on SyncMaster 713BM & VisionMaster Pro 410 )
: r800x600x72 " 50000000,48076,72,56,120,64,800,37,6,23,600,COLOR,0OFFSET" ;
( VESA 1600x1200 @ 75 ; work on VisionMaster Pro 410, reported as UXGA )
: r1600x1200x75 "
202500000,93750,75,64,192,304,1600,1,3,46,1200,COLOR,0OFFSET" ;

The one I can't get to sync is:
( Standard 1920x1080x60 using 148.5 Mhz clock... wont work for me on either
the T260 or the E2473HS )
: r1920x1080x60 "
148500000,67500,60,88,44,148,1920,4,5,36,1080,COLOR,0OFFSET" ;

As far as I understand the hardware, this should also work with a regular
TGX except there isn't enough memory for anything above 1152x900.

So if you want to hook-up your TGX(+) to a fixed-resolution device like a
LCD that isn't 1152x900, there might be a way if you're willing to add a
lot of code to your nvramrc...

Cordially,

--
Romain Dolbeau
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Andrew Jones
2016-02-27 18:51:30 UTC
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Post by Romain Dolbeau
I didn't get all that I wanted - the LCDs won't sync properly to many
signals, and only display partial resolutions of others (such as 1920x1200
displayed as 1600x1200 by a SyncMaster T260). Perhaps the LCDs aren't
comfortable with the composite sync.
This may not be a sign that your settings are wrong.
I've been having this problem with an 'ifb' device. 1920x1200 is
supposedly a supported resolution, but my only ostensibly-compatible
monitor detects it as 4:3, and squashes everything.
1600x1200 works just fine.
I just had a thought. On a PC graphics card, 1920x1080 and 1920x1200
would typically be "reduced blanking" modes, intended only for use with
LCDs.

I wonder if I could persuade the Sun to output something similar, and
have my monitor pick it up as 16:9 / 16:10.
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Mouse
2016-02-27 19:45:53 UTC
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Post by Andrew Jones
I just had a thought. On a PC graphics card, 1920x1080 and 1920x1200
would typically be "reduced blanking" modes, intended only for use
with LCDs.
I wonder if I could persuade the Sun to output something similar, and
have my monitor pick it up as 16:9 / 16:10.
Quite possibly. Your wording sounds as though you may not have read my
2008 note about how to get custom resolutions out of Sun framebuffers.
(In my case, it was mostly for the cg14, but with some minor
adjustments I believe it should also work for the cg6.)

ftp.rodents-montreal.org:/mouse/docs/Sun/custom-resolutions.txt has a
copy. It should also be in the list archives, but I don't know of any
interface to that that (a) isn't Web and (b) doesn't mangle the text
(it looks to me like an email address obfuscator misfiring). If you
want to have a look at that version anyway,
http://www.sunhelp.org/pipermail/rescue/2008-August/124772.html is the
place to check.

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Maciej W. Rozycki
2016-02-28 01:23:12 UTC
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Esta publicación puede ser inapropiada. Haga clic para mostrarlo.
Mouse
2016-02-28 03:00:21 UTC
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Post by Maciej W. Rozycki
Assuming that you're using analogue video signalling maybe all you
need to do is going into the monitor's advanced settings menu (if it
has one; you might need to reach for a service manual) [...].
So I had to go into the advanced settings menu, only available by
keeping one of the monitor's control buttons depressed while powering
the device on and not documented with the enclosed hardcopy manual.
Oh, lovely. Under-documentation.

Any idea where to get such missing documentation, in general?

I have two monitors in routine use at home, an Acer AL1706 A and an
Asus VH236H. The former, I find holding down the AUTO button while
doing a (soft) power-on makes the power LED come on amber rather than
green, and the OSD (a) appears in an unusual location and (b) has extra
menu options (none as nice as what you describe, though). The Asus
doesn't power on if I have any single one of the other buttons pressed
when I press the (soft) power button; I haven't tried any of the 26
possible multi-button combinations, nor have I tried hard power-cycles.

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Maciej W. Rozycki
2016-03-01 01:38:52 UTC
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Post by Mouse
Post by Maciej W. Rozycki
So I had to go into the advanced settings menu, only available by
keeping one of the monitor's control buttons depressed while powering
the device on and not documented with the enclosed hardcopy manual.
Oh, lovely. Under-documentation.
Any idea where to get such missing documentation, in general?
I found mine by chance, by searching the Internet. That's all I can add
here I'm afraid, I realise it's in the obvious category.
Post by Mouse
I have two monitors in routine use at home, an Acer AL1706 A and an
Asus VH236H. The former, I find holding down the AUTO button while
doing a (soft) power-on makes the power LED come on amber rather than
green, and the OSD (a) appears in an unusual location and (b) has extra
menu options (none as nice as what you describe, though). The Asus
doesn't power on if I have any single one of the other buttons pressed
when I press the (soft) power button; I haven't tried any of the 26
possible multi-button combinations, nor have I tried hard power-cycles.
Old iiyama CRTs used a specific sequence of OSD language selections to
follow to bring the service menu. Not easy to guess I'm afraid.

Maciej
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Mouse
2016-03-01 02:17:19 UTC
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Post by Maciej W. Rozycki
Post by Mouse
Any idea where to get such missing documentation, in general?
I found mine by chance, by searching the Internet. That's all I can
add here I'm afraid, I realise it's in the obvious category.
With that hint, I've been experimenting with various flatscreens I ahve
access to. So far, each of the ones I've experimented with won't
(soft) power on with buttons held down, except for one magic button
combination. All but one of them then have new options in the OSD when
powered on with that magic combination. Unfortunately none of them are
as interesting/useful as yours....
Post by Maciej W. Rozycki
Old iiyama CRTs used a specific sequence of OSD language selections
to follow to bring the service menu. Not easy to guess I'm afraid.
Quite. That sort of thing is on the order of the Konami code.

Actually, that's another thing that bothers me about flatscreens (all
of them, in my limited experience): none of them are willing to display
their OSD unless they are being fed a displayable video signal. (For
CRTs this kind of makes sense; you need scan frequencies to have a
display raster to superimpose the OSD on. For flatscreens it doesn't;
there is no technical reason it couldn't be made to display whatever it
pleases wherever it pleases whenever the backlight is on.)

Mouse
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