[rescue] SPARC10 died today

[john]

My SPARCstation 10 hung half-way into boot this afternoon so I shut it
down and tried a reboot. Nothing doing. It kicked the drives, but i
never got to a screen. L1A did nothing.B So i ordered another one from
the guys in California $75 +/- plus shipping with new NVRAM.

This thing is on my critical path.

I'm wondering if it makes any sense to buy another one while they are
still around.B I found that storing an IPX for ten years killed the
power supply - probably electrolytic capacitor failure.

I suppose i could buy a third S10 and fire it up a couple times a year
to at least see if it still worked.

It's also possible that the failure in the present machine will turn out
to be the frame buffer or RAM which I can find out when the new old
machine shows up.B Then I can buy whatever failed and have two good
machines without the aggravation of migrating my installation from the
present machine to the new one.

What else could I consider?B I don't know if my application which runs
on SunOS 4.1.4 will run on a SPARC5. They weren't out yet when
application was published.B Any ideas there?

I haven't checked to see if the 10 has keyboard diagnostics - next thing
to look at.

Nuts.


john
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[Richard]

Hi John

As a start I would suggest striping the machine down - pullout any sbus cards,
disconnect the hard drive and unplug any external devices including the
keyboard.

Then I would connect it to a serial console and see what you get.

I would check the nvram if the machine posts to make sure it is still valid.
There is a nvram faq out there that is a lot of hep.

Let us know how you go

Richard


Sent from my iPhone

My SPARCstation 10 hung half-way into boot this afternoon so I shut it down

and tried a reboot. Nothing doing. It kicked the drives, but i never got to a
screen. L1A did nothing.B So i ordered another one from the guys in
California $75 +/- plus shipping with new NVRAM.

This thing is on my critical path.
I'm wondering if it makes any sense to buy another one while they are still

around.B I found that storing an IPX for ten years killed the power supply -
probably electrolytic capacitor failure.

I suppose i could buy a third S10 and fire it up a couple times a year to at

least see if it still worked.

It's also possible that the failure in the present machine will turn out to

be the frame buffer or RAM which I can find out when the new old machine shows
up.B Then I can buy whatever failed and have two good machines without the
aggravation of migrating my installation from the present machine to the new
one.

What else could I consider?B I don't know if my application which runs on

SunOS 4.1.4 will run on a SPARC5. They weren't out yet when application was
published.B Any ideas there?

I haven't checked to see if the 10 has keyboard diagnostics - next thing to

look at.

Nuts.
john
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rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

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[alex d]

Before you start stripping things down, read this:

https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19127-01/sparc10.ws/800-6358-11/800-6358-11.pdf


The Sparc10 does indeed have keyboard LED diagnostics...

cheers
--
alex
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[Sandwich Maker]

" From: john <***@aol.com>
"
" My SPARCstation 10 hung half-way into boot this afternoon so I shut it
" []
"
" What else could I consider? I don't know if my application which
" runs on SunOS 4.1.4 will run on a SPARC5. They weren't out yet when
" application was published. Any ideas there?

solaris2 has, at least up through s9, a sunos4 compat libraries pkg.
if your app is well behaved and doesn't try to color outside the lines
it should run. it works for me for a couple of simple old apps.
ultra in 64b mode too btw.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
***@an.bradford.ma.us and think what none thought
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Dave McGuire]

What else could I consider?BB I don't know if my application which runs
on SunOS 4.1.4 will run on a SPARC5. They weren't out yet when
application was published.BB Any ideas there?

On this I can tell you there's almost no chance of a problem there.
Underlying CPU implementation features are barely even exposed under
SunOS, much less able to be depended upon by userland software.

Heck, I've even run SunOS4 32-bit BSD-based binaries under SysV-based
Solaris on 64-bit UltraSPARC systems. I know I've done that under
Solaris 9, not sure if I've done it on 10 or not.

-Dave

[CLIFFORD HAIGHT]

That sucks, wher part of the country are you in? I have an extra
Sparcstation 10 I don't really use anymore now that I picked up an 20. I
got both my SS10s for the cost of shipping, but they're not cheap to ship.
If you narrow down the part you need I could probably send you it for the cost
of shipping.


________________________________
From: rescue <rescue-***@sunhelp.org> on behalf of john
<***@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 12:49 PM
To: ***@sunhelp.org
Subject: [rescue] SPARC10 died today

My SPARCstation 10 hung half-way into boot this afternoon so I shut it
down and tried a reboot. Nothing doing. It kicked the drives, but i
never got to a screen. L1A did nothing.B So i ordered another one from
the guys in California $75 +/- plus shipping with new NVRAM.

This thing is on my critical path.

I'm wondering if it makes any sense to buy another one while they are
still around.B I found that storing an IPX for ten years killed the
power supply - probably electrolytic capacitor failure.

I suppose i could buy a third S10 and fire it up a couple times a year
to at least see if it still worked.

It's also possible that the failure in the present machine will turn out
to be the frame buffer or RAM which I can find out when the new old
machine shows up.B Then I can buy whatever failed and have two good
machines without the aggravation of migrating my installation from the
present machine to the new one.

What else could I consider?B I don't know if my application which runs
on SunOS 4.1.4 will run on a SPARC5. They weren't out yet when
application was published.B Any ideas there?

I haven't checked to see if the 10 has keyboard diagnostics - next thing
to look at.

Nuts.


john
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[John Hudak]

If one is dependent on machines of this vintage, then certain preventative
maintenance areas should be addressed before the machine goes belly up.

First is that the power supply needs to be rebuilt. Of course the filter
caps are the easy/well known things to replace. Everyone seems to
anecdotally know that without understanding the designs of the
powersupplies.

Switch Mode power supplies (SMPS) should have the caps in the switching
circuit replaced as well before they develop a low ESR which can take out
most of the semiconductors in the switcher.
Incoming transient suppression devices (e.g. MOVs) should be replaced.

Safety circuits (OVP, OCP) within the PS should be evaluated and caps and
older carbon resistors should be replaced.
The PS feeds all the chips on the MB, and I/O devices and if the power
supply suffers an OV, it feeds that directly to the semiconductors which
can destroy them.

If there are well known failure modes of the PS, components associated with
the failure modes should be replaced.
It is generally a good idea to install components that have a higher
working voltage or wattage rating than that of the original. Heat build up
will not stress oversized components as much as the original speced
components.

Consider installing a constant voltage transformer between the power source
and the computer. It will help reduce the effects of transients and
harmonic 'crap' on the incoming line

If the PS is loaded to within 80-90% of its capacity, one may want to
consider adding some form of forced cooling (.e.g. fan) to remove heat as
heat is the main culprit to breakdown of both passive and active components.


Keeping an old PS as a standby is illogical as a means of keeping the
machine running because old parts are old parts and a old PS can fail and
take out downstream devices. I've seen cases where NOS PS that had been
sitting on a shelf forever installed in machines, only to have them fail
shortly after being put into service.

Likewise, turning the machines on every 3 months will keep the capacitors
from deforming and losing their capacitance but, again, it won't help the
other failure modes...old parts are old parts.

Depending on the design approach of the CPU board(s), some may employ bulk
electrolytic capacitors in the area of the power supply connectors. Those
should be replaced.

good luck
J
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rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[john]

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: SPARC10 died today
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:07:19 -0500
From: john <***@aol.com>
To: John Hudak <***@gmail.com>



This is pretty comprehensive and follows my thoughts.B As it happens, it
does fire-up but doesn't even run the POST.B it does start the drives
but with no POST, it's pretty hard to ascertain where problem might be.
A while back i had similar problem with toshiba notebook, which would
start to boot flash the screen and lockup.B problem was corroded
connections on SMD power regulator which I was able to remove, (hot air
gun) replace part and re-tin connections and solder it back down for
another 3 years of constant service. When it did it again, i threw it
out and bought an HP

I bought another 10 from guys in California and am beginning to shop for
modern software which runs on modern machines to replace 1992 stuff I
was running on the Sun.B I'mB not sure I'm up to the level of preventive
maintenance you describe.

many thanks for the thoughts,

john ferguson

Post by John Hudak
If one is dependent on machines of this vintage, then certain
preventative maintenance areas should be addressed before the machine
goes belly up.
First is that the power supply needs to be rebuilt.B Of course the
filter caps are the easy/well known things to replace.B Everyone seems
to anecdotally know that without understanding the designs of the
powersupplies.
Switch Mode power supplies (SMPS) should have the caps in the
switching circuit replaced as well before they develop a low ESR which
can take out most of the semiconductors in the switcher.
Incoming transient suppression devices (e.g. MOVs) should be replaced.
Safety circuits (OVP, OCP) within the PS should be evaluated and caps
and older carbon resistors should be replaced.
The PS feeds all the chips on the MB, and I/O devices and if the power
supply suffers an OV, it feeds that directly to the semiconductors
which can destroy them.
If there are well known failure modes of the PS, components associated
with the failure modes should be replaced.
It is generally a good idea to install components that have a higher
working voltage or wattage rating than that of the original. Heat
build up will not stress oversized components as much as the original
speced components.
Consider installing a constant voltage transformer between the power
source and the computer.B It will help reduce the effects of
transients and harmonic 'crap' on the incoming line
If the PS is loaded to within 80-90% of its capacity, one may want to
consider adding some form of forced cooling (.e.g. fan) to remove heat
as heat is the main culprit to breakdown of both passive and active
components.
Keeping an old PS as a standby is illogical as a means of keeping the
machine runningB because old parts are old parts and a old PS can fail
and take out downstream devices. I've seen cases where NOS PS that had
been sitting on a shelf forever installed in machines, only to have
them fail shortly after being put into service.
Likewise, turning the machines on every 3 months will keep the
capacitors from deforming and losing their capacitance but, again, it
won't help the other failure modes...old parts are old parts.
Depending on the design approach of the CPU board(s), some may employ
bulk electrolytic capacitors in the area of the power supply
connectors.B Those should be replaced.
good luck
J

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rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Dave McGuire]

Post by john
I bought another 10 from guys in California and am beginning to shop for
modern software which runs on modern machines to replace 1992 stuff I
was running on the Sun.B

I'd wager that a used/surplus SS10 would live a good bit longer than
anything modern, assuming you're talking about PC hardware.

Post by john
I'mB not sure I'm up to the level of preventive
maintenance you describe.

That was a tad excessive, to be honest. ;)

-Dave

[Sandwich Maker]

" From: Dave McGuire <***@neurotica.com>
"
" On 11/30/2017 03:49 PM, john wrote:
" > What else could I consider? I don't know if my application which runs
" > on SunOS 4.1.4 will run on a SPARC5. They weren't out yet when
" > application was published. Any ideas there?
"
" On this I can tell you there's almost no chance of a problem there.
" Underlying CPU implementation features are barely even exposed under
" SunOS, much less able to be depended upon by userland software.
"
" Heck, I've even run SunOS4 32-bit BSD-based binaries under SysV-based
" Solaris on 64-bit UltraSPARC systems. I know I've done that under
" Solaris 9, not sure if I've done it on 10 or not.

would the recently-discussed aviator run in solaris2?
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
***@an.bradford.ma.us and think what none thought
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue