[rescue] Old Monitors

[Ian Frost]

Hi

I have a small number of old Sun monochrome monitors, which Ibve managed to
keep working over the years despite a few capacitor blow outs, etc.

Ibd really like to get one of the old Sun 17/19b colour monitors from the
early SPARC era - I had one but gave it away a decade or more ago.

So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if anyone
has one they would like to get rid off ?

I can collect of course - Ibm based near London.

Just out of interest - how many of these monitors are still around - anyone
still using them ?

Thanks
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Dave McGuire]

On 02/13/2018 04:29 PM, Ian Frost wrote:
> I have a small number of old Sun monochrome monitors, which Ibve managed to
> keep working over the years despite a few capacitor blow outs, etc.
>
> Ibd really like to get one of the old Sun 17/19b colour monitors from the
> early SPARC era - I had one but gave it away a decade or more ago.
>
> So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if anyone
> has one they would like to get rid off ?
>
> I can collect of course - Ibm based near London.
>
> Just out of interest - how many of these monitors are still around - anyone
> still using them ?

We have three or four at LSSM, in preparation for the opening of the
third exhibit floor which includes workstations. Those monitors have
become very difficult to find, due of course to people trashing them.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[JP Hindin]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Dave McGuire wrote:
> On 02/13/2018 04:29 PM, Ian Frost wrote:
>> I have a small number of old Sun monochrome monitors, which Ibve managed to
>> keep working over the years despite a few capacitor blow outs, etc.
>>
>> Ibd really like to get one of the old Sun 17/19b colour monitors from the
>> early SPARC era - I had one but gave it away a decade or more ago.
>>
>> So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if anyone
>> has one they would like to get rid off ?
>>
>> I can collect of course - Ibm based near London.
>>
>> Just out of interest - how many of these monitors are still around - anyone
>> still using them ?
>
> We have three or four at LSSM, in preparation for the opening of the
> third exhibit floor which includes workstations. Those monitors have
> become very difficult to find, due of course to people trashing them.

Are these the ones with the DB9 that go to Sun3 framebuffers? If so, I
have a pair of them to go with my Sun 3/110s and 3/60s.

If not... which ones are they? :)

- JP
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Barry Keeney]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, JP Hindin wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Dave McGuire wrote:
>> On 02/13/2018 04:29 PM, Ian Frost wrote:
>>> I have a small number of old Sun monochrome monitors, which Ibve managed
>>> to
>>> keep working over the years despite a few capacitor blow outs, etc.
>>>
>>> Ibd really like to get one of the old Sun 17/19b colour monitors from
>>> the
>>> early SPARC era - I had one but gave it away a decade or more ago.
>>>
>>> So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if
>>> anyone
>>> has one they would like to get rid off ?
>>>
>>> I can collect of course - Ibm based near London.
>>>
>>> Just out of interest - how many of these monitors are still around -
>>> anyone
>>> still using them ?
>>
>> We have three or four at LSSM, in preparation for the opening of the
>> third exhibit floor which includes workstations. Those monitors have
>> become very difficult to find, due of course to people trashing them.

I know I could use one or two of the db9 mono's myself, for my 3/50's
and 3/60s I've got.

Don't know if or how many of the older color monitors I've got, been
a while since I last looked. Like most they're large and heavy so people
didn't want to keep them around after a move or two...

Barry Keeney
Chaos Consulting
email ***@chaoscon.com

"Atheist: A person who doesn't need imaginary friends"

"Rap is Square Dancing gone terribly, terribly Wrong...."

"MicroSoft Windows - Running our defences until they all bluescreen during the Cylon attack..."
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Dave McGuire]

On 02/13/2018 05:20 PM, Barry Keeney wrote:
>>> B We have three or four at LSSM, in preparation for the opening of the
>>> third exhibit floor which includes workstations.B Those monitors have
>>> become very difficult to find, due of course to people trashing them.
>
> B B I know I could use one or two of the db9 mono's myself, for my 3/50's
> and 3/60s I've got.
>
> B B Don't know if or how many of the older color monitors I've got, been
> a while since I last looked. Like most they're large and heavy so people
> didn't want to keep them around after a move or two...

Yup. And we're all paying the price for their laziness now. People
don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is how things
become "rare".

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Mouse]

> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
> how things become "rare".

As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.

Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[William Barnett-Lewis]

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 7:09 PM, Mouse <***@rodents-montreal.org> wrote:
>> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
>> how things become "rare".

Going from a house to a trailer meant somethings weren't going to make
it. I'm just glad I still have a Sunblade 2500 Silver to work with. If
I had the money for a second cpu & more ram I'd be even happier :)

> As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
> exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
> as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
> to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.
>
> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?

I'd simply enjoy having a breakout box that could take various old
school video (13w3, 3bnc, etc) and make an output suitable for a cheap
LCD. I realize that's probably even more difficult than I think it
would be but still.

--
Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance
like no-one is watching.
Alex White
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Dave McGuire]

On 02/13/2018 08:09 PM, Mouse wrote:
>> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
>> how things become "rare".
>
> As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
> exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
> as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
> to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.

It's less a matter of service to a "hobby" than service to history.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Toby Thain]

On 2018-02-13 8:09 PM, Mouse wrote:
>> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
>> how things become "rare".
>
> As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
> exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
> as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
> to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.
>
> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?

Don't neglect electrostatic monitors!! Turns out the oscilloscope/curve
tracer/vectorscope communities are still pretty active in
repair/restoration.

--Toby

>
> /~\ The ASCII Mouse
> \ / Ribbon Campaign
> X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
> / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Barry Keeney]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Mouse wrote:

>> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
>> how things become "rare".
>
> As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
> exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
> as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
> to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.
>
> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?

I used to sell used Sun monitors in the early 90's. I got them at
the local goverment auctions. The guys who bought PC stuff left the
Sun color moniters alone because you couldn't use them on PC's without
a high end video card. I'd picked them up for $5 each. 2 out of 3
worked with maybe a minor adjustment. I'd get $125 + shipping
each, mostly because the shipping was about $100 for the 19" color
BNC, weight just below the limit for UPS and needed to be doubled
boxed.

I wish I'd kept more of the monitors, I have the computers, just
not enough monitors. I even have some rare ones, like a 12meg 3/50.

Barry Keeney
Chaos Consulting
email ***@chaoscon.com

"Atheist: A person who doesn't need imaginary friends"

"Rap is Square Dancing gone terribly, terribly Wrong...."

"MicroSoft Windows - Running our defences until they all bluescreen during the Cylon attack..."
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[PhreakShow Telephone Company]

I do keep some monitors on hand. I have a matched pair of lacie
diamondtrons, 1 or 2 sun monitors and a number of smaller EGA/VGA
Displays. Plus Sony PVM monitors. i mean common crappy
compaq/dell/massproduced junk i dont save. its gotta be a high
quality one for me to save it.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Barry Keeney <***@chaoscon.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Mouse wrote:
>
>>> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
>>> how things become "rare".
>>
>>
>> As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
>> exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
>> as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
>> to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.
>>
>> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
>> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?
>
>
> I used to sell used Sun monitors in the early 90's. I got them at
> the local goverment auctions. The guys who bought PC stuff left the
> Sun color moniters alone because you couldn't use them on PC's without
> a high end video card. I'd picked them up for $5 each. 2 out of 3
> worked with maybe a minor adjustment. I'd get $125 + shipping
> each, mostly because the shipping was about $100 for the 19" color
> BNC, weight just below the limit for UPS and needed to be doubled
> boxed.
>
> I wish I'd kept more of the monitors, I have the computers, just
> not enough monitors. I even have some rare ones, like a 12meg 3/50.
>
> Barry Keeney
> Chaos Consulting
> email ***@chaoscon.com
>
> "Atheist: A person who doesn't need imaginary friends"
>
> "Rap is Square Dancing gone terribly, terribly Wrong...."
>
> "MicroSoft Windows - Running our defences until they all bluescreen during
> the Cylon attack..."
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Liam Proven]

On 14 February 2018 at 02:09, Mouse <***@rodents-montreal.org> wrote:
>
> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/6/16973914/tvs-crt-restoration-led-gaming-vin
tage

The thing is that the nature of the beasts means that small-scale
production isn't really possible.

I don't like the picture quality of LCDs in some ways -- I preferred
CRTs and used them as long as I could -- but I confess it's lovely to
have 2 x 23" + screens on my home computer (and bigger at work)
without them weighing as much as a hefty child and taking 75% of the
desk. They don't take much power, or make much heat, or cost much,
either.

So I tolerate the crappy over-saturated colours with solarisation,
banding and posterisation. Price of progress. :-(

--
Liam Proven b" Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: ***@cix.co.uk b" Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: ***@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven b" Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: [phone] b" DR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): [phone]
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Peter Stokes]

Sent from my iPad

On 14 Feb 2018, at 01:09, Mouse <***@Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:

>> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
>> how things become "rare".
>
> As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
> exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
> as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
> to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.
>
> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?

If I remember correctly there was also an environmental reason why folk moved
away from manufacture of CRTs, possibly to do with heavy metals or some such
reason?

Peter
>
> /~\ The ASCII Mouse
> \ / Ribbon Campaign
> X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
> / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Patrick Giagnocavo]

Yes, the interior of the CRT is coated with lead oxide. Breaking a
tube will release this.

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 2:29 AM, Peter Stokes <***@ashlyn.co.uk> wrote:
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 14 Feb 2018, at 01:09, Mouse <***@Rodents-Montreal.ORG> wrote:
>
>>> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
>>> how things become "rare".
>>
>> As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
>> exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
>> as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
>> to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.
>>
>> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
>> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?
>
> If I remember correctly there was also an environmental reason why folk moved
> away from manufacture of CRTs, possibly to do with heavy metals or some such
> reason?
>
> Peter
>>
>> /~\ The ASCII Mouse
>> \ / Ribbon Campaign
>> X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
>> / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
>> _______________________________________________
>> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Ron Wickersham]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote:

> Yes, the interior of the CRT is coated with lead oxide. Breaking a
> tube will release this.

not in any CRT manufacturing process I'm aware of. the coating both
on the inside and the outside of the conical glass portion of the
envelope is Aquadag, a water-based graphite coating. the two coatings
form a capacitor, with glass as the dielectric as in the Leyden jar which
used metal foil conductors rather than the conductive graphite Aquadag
coating. the Aquadag coating on the inside of the CRT is required to
form the uniform accelerating electrostatic field for the electron beam
to strike the phosphor coating on the inside of the face of the tube.
the Aquadag coating on the outside makes the second plate of an inexpensive
high-voltage capacitor for the high voltage supply.

as the accelerated beam strikes the face of the tube with high velocity,
X-rays are produced.

the lead content of the CRT is primarily in the face-plate glass of the
tube to shield the user from these X-rays. the lead is bound in the
glass, like in lead "crystal" glass vases, pitchers, and goblets. the
lead content in lead "crystal" is 35-40 percent PbO, lead oxide, by
weight, and in CRT the lead content is slightly higher at 50-55 percent.

-ron
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[John Hudak]

I thought that the AquaDAG also acted as a collector for both the electrons
in the initial beam after the hit the phospos coating on the screen and are
redirected, as well as collecting the secondary electron emissions,
returning them to the annode of the power supply. If not, the accumulation
of electrons would distort the electron beam.
John


On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:49 PM, Ron Wickersham <***@alembic.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Patrick Giagnocavo wrote:
>
> > Yes, the interior of the CRT is coated with lead oxide. Breaking a
> > tube will release this.
>
> not in any CRT manufacturing process I'm aware of. the coating both
> on the inside and the outside of the conical glass portion of the
> envelope is Aquadag, a water-based graphite coating. the two coatings
> form a capacitor, with glass as the dielectric as in the Leyden jar which
> used metal foil conductors rather than the conductive graphite Aquadag
> coating. the Aquadag coating on the inside of the CRT is required to
> form the uniform accelerating electrostatic field for the electron beam
> to strike the phosphor coating on the inside of the face of the tube.
> the Aquadag coating on the outside makes the second plate of an inexpensive
> high-voltage capacitor for the high voltage supply.
>
> as the accelerated beam strikes the face of the tube with high velocity,
> X-rays are produced.
>
> the lead content of the CRT is primarily in the face-plate glass of the
> tube to shield the user from these X-rays. the lead is bound in the
> glass, like in lead "crystal" glass vases, pitchers, and goblets. the
> lead content in lead "crystal" is 35-40 percent PbO, lead oxide, by
> weight, and in CRT the lead content is slightly higher at 50-55 percent.
>
> -ron
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Mouse]

>> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
>> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?
> If I remember correctly there was also an environmental reason why
> folk moved away from manufacture of CRTs, possibly to do with heavy
> metals or some such reason?

Possibly; I don't recall any such details, for what (little) that may
be worth. It seems obvious to me to take the sync-to-signal
electronics from a CRT and backend it with a flatscreen, but a friend
who's much better in touch with such things than I am says that would
infringe various patents. (Invalid patents, I suspect, based on the
obviousness criterion, but, even if I'm right, breaking them would
require someone willing to slog through the relevant aspects of the
applicable legal system(s).)

Of course, there may be jurisdictions with saner patent systems where
there are no such patents, but I suspect that does not describe most of
the market, thus semi-killing the business plan. :-(

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Jonathan Patschke]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Mouse wrote:

> Possibly; I don't recall any such details, for what (little) that may
> be worth. It seems obvious to me to take the sync-to-signal
> electronics from a CRT and backend it with a flatscreen,

If you want a very general display (for dealing with odd fixed-frequency
display generators, and display generators with unusual frequencies), you
end up needing a framebuffer in the middle. This might be a fun project
to build on one of the many ARM development boards that have HDMI outputs.

I keep a few Dell 2001FP LCDs around because they are _so_ _good_ at
synchronizing to strange devices--from old microcomputers to workstations.
Unfortunately, a great many of them are already 14 years old and weren't
design with the same lifetimes in mind as workstation-grade CRTs.

--
Jonathan Patschke
Austin, TX
USA
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[l***@gmail.com]

Do those Dell monitors work on 15KHz input? Ibve needed something that can
do that in order to get color output from my Atari ST.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 1:47 PM, Jonathan Patschke <***@celestrion.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Mouse wrote:
>>
>> Possibly; I don't recall any such details, for what (little) that may
>> be worth. It seems obvious to me to take the sync-to-signal
>> electronics from a CRT and backend it with a flatscreen,
>
> If you want a very general display (for dealing with odd fixed-frequency
> display generators, and display generators with unusual frequencies), you
> end up needing a framebuffer in the middle. This might be a fun project
> to build on one of the many ARM development boards that have HDMI outputs.
>
> I keep a few Dell 2001FP LCDs around because they are _so_ _good_ at
> synchronizing to strange devices--from old microcomputers to workstations.
> Unfortunately, a great many of them are already 14 years old and weren't
> design with the same lifetimes in mind as workstation-grade CRTs.
>
> --
> Jonathan Patschke
> Austin, TX
> USA
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Jonathan Patschke]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018, ***@gmail.com wrote:

> Do those Dell monitors work on 15KHz input? Ibve needed something that
> can do that in order to get color output from my Atari ST.

My recollection is that it does; I think I've plugged an Apple IIgs into
it before.

This list might be helpful:
http://15khz.wikidot.com/

--
Jonathan Patschke
Austin, TX
USA
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[CLIFFORD HAIGHT]

Yes, only older models though. Also the screen doesn't center automatically
properly, so you need to use the manual controls. They accept composite,
video, dvi and vga. They are pretty power hungry for even a LCD of the time
and where considered gaming monitors for there time. They also don't power
save so you need to make sure turn them off and the get pretty warm as well.
I have two of them myself but prefer to use CRTs


________________________________
From: rescue <rescue-***@sunhelp.org> on behalf of ***@gmail.com
<***@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:32 PM
To: The Rescue List
Subject: Re: [rescue] Old Monitors

Do those Dell monitors work on 15KHz input? Ibve needed something that can
do that in order to get color output from my Atari ST.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 1:47 PM, Jonathan Patschke <***@celestrion.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Mouse wrote:
>>
>> Possibly; I don't recall any such details, for what (little) that may
>> be worth. It seems obvious to me to take the sync-to-signal
>> electronics from a CRT and backend it with a flatscreen,
>
> If you want a very general display (for dealing with odd fixed-frequency
> display generators, and display generators with unusual frequencies), you
> end up needing a framebuffer in the middle. This might be a fun project
> to build on one of the many ARM development boards that have HDMI outputs.
>
> I keep a few Dell 2001FP LCDs around because they are _so_ _good_ at
> synchronizing to strange devices--from old microcomputers to workstations.
> Unfortunately, a great many of them are already 14 years old and weren't
> design with the same lifetimes in mind as workstation-grade CRTs.
>
> --
> Jonathan Patschke
> Austin, TX
> USA
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
rescue -- The Rescue List -
SunHELP<http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue>
www.sunhelp.org
Discussion about the rescue, restoration, and upkeep of old computing
hardware. This list was formerly dedicated to Sun equipment, but now
discussion on any old ...


_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
rescue -- The Rescue List -
SunHELP<http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue>
www.sunhelp.org
Discussion about the rescue, restoration, and upkeep of old computing
hardware. This list was formerly dedicated to Sun equipment, but now
discussion on any old ...
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[l***@gmail.com]

I found one on eBay for cheap, Ibll give it a try. I would prefer a CRT as
well (I currently use an old off-brand 13b monitor with the Amiga and ST)
but finding one that can handle RGB input, is in good shape, and isnbt
impossible to ship can be pretty difficult.

I have a little 10b PVM for things that do composite that came out of a
schoolbs TV studio - now thatbs a good display for an 8-bit micro.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2018, at 3:41 PM, CLIFFORD HAIGHT <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, only older models though. Also the screen doesn't center
automatically
> properly, so you need to use the manual controls. They accept composite,
> video, dvi and vga. They are pretty power hungry for even a LCD of the
time
> and where considered gaming monitors for there time. They also don't power
> save so you need to make sure turn them off and the get pretty warm as
well.
> I have two of them myself but prefer to use CRTs
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: rescue <rescue-***@sunhelp.org> on behalf of ***@gmail.com
> <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:32 PM
> To: The Rescue List
> Subject: Re: [rescue] Old Monitors
>
> Do those Dell monitors work on 15KHz input? Ibve needed something that can
> do that in order to get color output from my Atari ST.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Feb 15, 2018, at 1:47 PM, Jonathan Patschke <***@celestrion.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Mouse wrote:
>>>
>>> Possibly; I don't recall any such details, for what (little) that may
>>> be worth. It seems obvious to me to take the sync-to-signal
>>> electronics from a CRT and backend it with a flatscreen,
>>
>> If you want a very general display (for dealing with odd fixed-frequency
>> display generators, and display generators with unusual frequencies), you
>> end up needing a framebuffer in the middle. This might be a fun project
>> to build on one of the many ARM development boards that have HDMI outputs.
>>
>> I keep a few Dell 2001FP LCDs around because they are _so_ _good_ at
>> synchronizing to strange devices--from old microcomputers to workstations.
>> Unfortunately, a great many of them are already 14 years old and weren't
>> design with the same lifetimes in mind as workstation-grade CRTs.
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Patschke
>> Austin, TX
>> USA
>> _______________________________________________
>> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
> rescue -- The Rescue List -
> SunHELP<http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue>
> www.sunhelp.org
> Discussion about the rescue, restoration, and upkeep of old computing
> hardware. This list was formerly dedicated to Sun equipment, but now
> discussion on any old ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
> rescue -- The Rescue List -
> SunHELP<http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue>
> www.sunhelp.org
> Discussion about the rescue, restoration, and upkeep of old computing
> hardware. This list was formerly dedicated to Sun equipment, but now
> discussion on any old ...
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[l***@gmail.com]

I got one and it works great with the ST in both RGB and pseudo-VGA modes.
Therebs a phase or clock issue that makes the fonts on the medium resolution
screen hard to read, though. Most games are low-res and productivity I do in
high-res so itbs still fine.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2018, at 2:34 AM, ***@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I found one on eBay for cheap, Ibll give it a try. I would prefer a CRT as
well (I currently use an old off-brand 13b monitor with the Amiga and ST)
but finding one that can handle RGB input, is in good shape, and isnbt
impossible to ship can be pretty difficult.
>
> I have a little 10b PVM for things that do composite that came out of a
schoolbs TV studio - now thatbs a good display for an 8-bit micro.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 15, 2018, at 3:41 PM, CLIFFORD HAIGHT <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, only older models though. Also the screen doesn't center
automatically
>> properly, so you need to use the manual controls. They accept composite,
>> video, dvi and vga. They are pretty power hungry for even a LCD of the
time
>> and where considered gaming monitors for there time. They also don't
power
>> save so you need to make sure turn them off and the get pretty warm as
well.
>> I have two of them myself but prefer to use CRTs
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: rescue <rescue-***@sunhelp.org> on behalf of ***@gmail.com
>> <***@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:32 PM
>> To: The Rescue List
>> Subject: Re: [rescue] Old Monitors
>>
>> Do those Dell monitors work on 15KHz input? Ibve needed something that
can
>> do that in order to get color output from my Atari ST.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Feb 15, 2018, at 1:47 PM, Jonathan Patschke <***@celestrion.net>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2018, Mouse wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Possibly; I don't recall any such details, for what (little) that may
>>>> be worth. It seems obvious to me to take the sync-to-signal
>>>> electronics from a CRT and backend it with a flatscreen,
>>>
>>> If you want a very general display (for dealing with odd fixed-frequency
>>> display generators, and display generators with unusual frequencies), you
>>> end up needing a framebuffer in the middle. This might be a fun project
>>> to build on one of the many ARM development boards that have HDMI
outputs.
>>>
>>> I keep a few Dell 2001FP LCDs around because they are _so_ _good_ at
>>> synchronizing to strange devices--from old microcomputers to
workstations.
>>> Unfortunately, a great many of them are already 14 years old and weren't
>>> design with the same lifetimes in mind as workstation-grade CRTs.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonathan Patschke
>>> Austin, TX
>>> USA
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
>> rescue -- The Rescue List -
>> SunHELP<http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue>
>> www.sunhelp.org
>> Discussion about the rescue, restoration, and upkeep of old computing
>> hardware. This list was formerly dedicated to Sun equipment, but now
>> discussion on any old ...
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
>> rescue -- The Rescue List -
>> SunHELP<http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue>
>> www.sunhelp.org
>> Discussion about the rescue, restoration, and upkeep of old computing
>> hardware. This list was formerly dedicated to Sun equipment, but now
>> discussion on any old ...
>> _______________________________________________
>> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Mouse]

>> It seems obvious to me to take the sync-to-signal electronics from a
>> CRT and backend it with a flatscreen, [...]
> If you want a very general display (for dealing with odd
> fixed-frequency display generators, and display generators with
> unusual frequencies), you end up needing a framebuffer in the middle.

Well, you need some form of memory, whether it takes the form of RAM,
or phosphor persistence, or even human-eye persistence. :-)

But, really, what makes the most sense to me is to put the memory with
the pixels: each pixel of screen includes not just driving electronics
but 24 (or whatever) bits of RAM to store that pixel, plus enough logic
to support the scan decoding logic writing to those bits - though this
seems obvious enough there probably is some reason it's difficult to do
or it would have already been done.

> This might be a fun project to build on one of the many ARM
> development boards that have HDMI outputs.

Personally, nothing involving HDMI is fun. Supporting HDMI is negative
when I'm looking for a computer; supporting nothing but HDMI is a much
bigger negative.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Jonathan Patschke]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018, Mouse wrote:

> Well, you need some form of memory, whether it takes the form of RAM,
> or phosphor persistence, or even human-eye persistence. :-)

I was referring to the problem that as your effective resolution
approaches being relatively prime to the actual display resolution, clever
scaling needs doing or everything gets Bresenham'ed to crap. Folks in the
vintage video-games emulation community have played with different scaling
algorithms since at least the mid-1990s, and there are few
computationally-cheap ones that look okay.

I saw a computationally-expensive algorithm that came out of Microsoft
Research (I think) a couple of years back that produced _amazing_ results,
but it didn't look like something that could provably run in bounded time.

> But, really, what makes the most sense to me is to put the memory with
> the pixels: each pixel of screen includes not just driving electronics
> but 24 (or whatever) bits of RAM to store that pixel, plus enough logic
> to support the scan decoding logic writing to those bits - though this
> seems obvious enough there probably is some reason it's difficult to do
> or it would have already been done.

Yes, you _can_ do just that, and many companies have. The results are
ugly for anything other than an input signal that assumes the native
resolution of the panel.

CRTs are more-or-less analogue (w/r/t resolution) down to a certain
dot-pitch floor. The pixel clock doesn't need to perfectly match the
shadow mask; phosphor makes a great integrator. A Cartesian grid of
pixels is not as forgiving, hence the need for creativity to replicate the
CRT smoothing/scaling effect.

> Personally, nothing involving HDMI is fun. Supporting HDMI is negative
> when I'm looking for a computer; supporting nothing but HDMI is a much
> bigger negative.

I guess it depends on how many yaks you want to shave. For all its evils,
the market presence of HDMI provides a great abstraction later for
connecting an arbitrary display panel. DisplayPort is better from a
licensing point-of-view, but is rarely present on the cheaper development
boards.

--
Jonathan Patschke
Austin, TX
USA
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Mouse]

>> Well, you need some form of memory, whether it takes the form of
>> RAM, or phosphor persistence, or even human-eye persistence. :-)
> I was referring to the problem that as your effective resolution
> approaches being relatively prime to the actual display resolution,
> clever scaling needs doing or everything gets Bresenham'ed to crap.

Only if you insist on scaling.

I would MUCH rather letterbox. I find it extremely annoying that the
more modern a flatscreen is, (IME) the less likely it is to support
letterboxing instead of scaling. (Actually, I would _like_ three
options: (1) scale as most do now; (2) letterbox; (3) scale by the
largest _integer_ factor possible. Ideally each of those could be
chosen separately in each dimension, but that's more from an aesthetic
of orthogonality than because I think it would actually be useful.)

>> Personally, nothing involving HDMI is fun. Supporting HDMI is
>> negative when I'm looking for a computer; supporting nothing but
>> HDMI is a much bigger negative.
> I guess it depends on how many yaks you want to shave.

The presence of HDMI makes me feel icky dealing with the machine in
question (largely but not entirely because of HDCP - some of whose
costs still apply even if it's not getting used); the lack of anything
else makes me feel much ickier, to the point where I doubt I would
tolerate it on a machine I'm not being paid to work with.

After all, I play with computers because I enjoy it. So, anything that
impairs that enjoyment, from USB to the x86 ISA to HDMI, matters.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[John Hudak]

Just a note about keeping old monitors.
There is a time (and somewhat environmental) issue that will render the CRT
difficult to see possibly making it totally useless despite having good
electronics.

A leaded glass face is bonded to the front of the CRT. Over time, the
bonding deteriorates and the glass begins to delaminate.
In general, the adhesive used was some sort of thermoset polyester or amide
type compound which is both hygroscopic and biodegradable.
As the delamination occurs, moisture gets trapped and gives rise to
alge-like specs that grow on the inside of the front glass. Sometimes the
delamination looks like a wave or a dark irregular shape on the glass.
Note that no amount of cleaning is going to make the marks go away. There
is no (safe and sane) way to remove the glass, clean it, and reattach it.
The CRT is worthless. It may still perform well, but the user is
constantly looking through the muck that has grown between the glass.

I bring this up because my collection of CRT based things (terminals, test
equipment, and computers) have begun to show delamination.
A Perkin Elmer terminal mfg 1976 came down with the disease about 9-10
years ago. A Hazeltine terminal circa 1979 showed the blight about five
years ago, my HP logic analyzer, circa 1982 showed the blight about a year
ago. All of these devices were kept in a climate controlled basement when I
inherited them from their labs - they were not mistreated.
So, extrapolating a bit, if I am seeing failures in gear mfg in 1982, that
suggests a 35 year life span. Partially substantiated by the failure time
line of my mid 1970s CRTs. Applying the failure timeline to gear produced
in the late 80/early 90s, they got about 7-10 years of life left... more or
less.
So my points here are:
1. one may be able to fix the electronics but the CRT degradation will get
you in the end. Its unavoidable, like death n taxes.
2. If you use/collect vintage CRT based gear, may want to plan on options
to use something else instead.
I don't know of any way to guard against this failure - of course, keeping
them in a good environment will help.

I was more than a little bummed when I went to throw my logic analyzer onto
my PDP11 and found that it had the blight...
This has been my experience, friends of mine have seen similar
failures....YMMV.

In many cases you can find donor machines or NOS parts but chances are they
are in the same timeframe
Disposing of CRT based devices in the states has become a royal PITA as
salvagers that take this type of gear are very few and far between, with
fees to process your device ranging from $30 to $100/device.

-J




On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 9:30 PM, Mouse <***@rodents-montreal.org> wrote:

> >> Seems to me there's a market - a small niche market, but still - for
> >> new CRT monitors. Anyone looking for a business plan?
> > If I remember correctly there was also an environmental reason why
> > folk moved away from manufacture of CRTs, possibly to do with heavy
> > metals or some such reason?
>
> Possibly; I don't recall any such details, for what (little) that may
> be worth. It seems obvious to me to take the sync-to-signal
> electronics from a CRT and backend it with a flatscreen, but a friend
> who's much better in touch with such things than I am says that would
> infringe various patents. (Invalid patents, I suspect, based on the
> obviousness criterion, but, even if I'm right, breaking them would
> require someone willing to slog through the relevant aspects of the
> applicable legal system(s).)
>
> Of course, there may be jurisdictions with saner patent systems where
> there are no such patents, but I suspect that does not describe most of
> the market, thus semi-killing the business plan. :-(
>
> /~\ The ASCII Mouse
> \ / Ribbon Campaign
> X Against HTML ***@rodents-montreal.org
> / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Phil Stracchino]

On 02/13/18 20:09, Mouse wrote:
>> People don't seem to understand (or don't care enough) that this is
>> how things become "rare".
>
> As someone who's dropped big heavy CRTs during moves recently: I know
> exactly that's how the things become rare. But, unfortunately (for me
> as well everyone else here), service to the hobby far too often loses
> to being able to fit everything into an affordable place.

This. For most of us, there is only so much space, and only so much power.


--
Phil Stracchino
Babylon Communications
***@caerllewys.net
***@co.ordinate.org
Landline: +1.603.293.8485
Mobile: [phone]
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Phil Stracchino]

On 02/13/18 16:29, Ian Frost wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have a small number of old Sun monochrome monitors, which Ibve managed to
> keep working over the years despite a few capacitor blow outs, etc.
>
> Ibd really like to get one of the old Sun 17/19b colour monitors from the
> early SPARC era - I had one but gave it away a decade or more ago.
>
> So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if anyone
> has one they would like to get rid off ?


The last Sun CRT monitor I had was a 90D10 that I gave away to a
hobbyist who wanted to use it in a homebuilt flight simulator. Before
that, I had about four or five 20D10s that gave up the ghost one by one.


--
Phil Stracchino
Babylon Communications
***@caerllewys.net
***@co.ordinate.org
Landline: +1.603.293.8485
Mobile: [phone]
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Peter Stokes]

Sent from my iPad

> On 13 Feb 2018, at 22:04, Phil Stracchino <***@caerllewys.net> wrote:
>
>> On 02/13/18 16:29, Ian Frost wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I have a small number of old Sun monochrome monitors, which Ibve managed
to
>> keep working over the years despite a few capacitor blow outs, etc.
>>
>> Ibd really like to get one of the old Sun 17/19b colour monitors from
the
>> early SPARC era - I had one but gave it away a decade or more ago.
>>
>> So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if
anyone
>> has one they would like to get rid off ?
>
>
> The last Sun CRT monitor I had was a 90D10 that I gave away to a
> hobbyist who wanted to use it in a homebuilt flight simulator. Before
> that, I had about four or five 20D10s that gave up the ghost one by one.

The 20D10 and its replacement the 20E10? were both very poor monitors and had
a shocking lifetime, worst monitor I ever saw from Sony. The earlier 1962 and
17 inch equivalent were much much better monitors. The main issue with all of
those early monitors was lack of PC compatibility which is why so many were
just scrapped early on, and the later PC compact ones were scrapped as they
were just too damn big and heavy for folk to keep around.

On the early mono/grayscale ones. The mono had the DB9 'TTL' interface and the
grey scale the 13W3.

My personal favourite of the earlier monitors, though not that early was the
18.1" LCD. Still a few around and usually pretty cheap to buy and to ship,
unlike the CRTs.

Peter
>
>
> --
> Phil Stracchino
> Babylon Communications
> ***@caerllewys.net
> ***@co.ordinate.org
> Landline: +1.603.293.8485
> Mobile: [phone]
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Bill Bradford]

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:15:17PM +0000, Peter Stokes wrote:
>My personal favourite of the earlier monitors, though not that early was the
>18.1" LCD. Still a few around and usually pretty cheap to buy and to ship,
>unlike the CRTs.

I've still got 2-3 of those in the original boxes in my garage, although I
don't think I have enough power bricks for all of them.

Bill

--
Bill Bradford
Houston, Texas USA
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Bill Bradford]

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 05:04:40PM -0500, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>The last Sun CRT monitor I had was a 90D10 that I gave away to a
>hobbyist who wanted to use it in a homebuilt flight simulator. Before
>that, I had about four or five 20D10s that gave up the ghost one by one.

In 2004 and then in 2013 or so, we tossed out SO MANY 20" CRTs, both Sun and
SGI, at Halliburton because people wanted flatpanels instead. We filled a
full semi trailer each time. Seeing the recycling guy *throw* them around
was impressive - and the fact that I didn't see a single tube break or
shatter.

Bill

--
Bill Bradford
Houston, Texas USA
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Robert Toegel]

Bill, you've got to hit the neck of the tube. That's the weak point. I
found out the hard way (don't ask).

Bob

On Feb 19, 2018 6:07 PM, "Bill Bradford" <***@mrbill.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 05:04:40PM -0500, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>
>> The last Sun CRT monitor I had was a 90D10 that I gave away to a
>> hobbyist who wanted to use it in a homebuilt flight simulator. Before
>> that, I had about four or five 20D10s that gave up the ghost one by one.
>>
>
> In 2004 and then in 2013 or so, we tossed out SO MANY 20" CRTs, both Sun
> and
> SGI, at Halliburton because people wanted flatpanels instead. We filled a
> full semi trailer each time. Seeing the recycling guy *throw* them around
> was impressive - and the fact that I didn't see a single tube break or
> shatter.
>
> Bill
>
> --
> Bill Bradford
> Houston, Texas USA
> _______________________________________________
> rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Phil Stracchino]

On 02/19/18 18:15, Robert Toegel wrote:
> Bill, you've got to hit the neck of the tube. That's the weak point. I
> found out the hard way (don't ask).


You can do it via the face. You just have to hit it hard enough.

A 7.62mm rifle works nicely...


--
Phil Stracchino
Babylon Communications
***@caerllewys.net
***@co.ordinate.org
Landline: +1.603.293.8485
Mobile: [phone]
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Robert Toegel]

I'm in NJ. They don't let us any fun here.

Bob

On Feb 19, 2018 7:19 PM, "Phil Stracchino" <***@caerllewys.net> wrote:

On 02/19/18 18:15, Robert Toegel wrote:
> Bill, you've got to hit the neck of the tube. That's the weak point. I
> found out the hard way (don't ask).


You can do it via the face. You just have to hit it hard enough.

A 7.62mm rifle works nicely...


--
Phil Stracchino
Babylon Communications
***@caerllewys.net
***@co.ordinate.org
Landline: +1.603.293.8485
Mobile: [phone]
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Sandwich Maker]

" From: JP Hindin <***@kiwigeek.com>
"
" On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Dave McGuire wrote:
" > On 02/13/2018 04:29 PM, Ian Frost wrote:
" >> I have a small number of old Sun monochrome monitors, which Ibve managed to
" >> keep working over the years despite a few capacitor blow outs, etc.
" >>
" >> I'd really like to get one of the old Sun 17/19" colour monitors from the
" >> early SPARC era - I had one but gave it away a decade or more ago.
" >>
" >> So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if anyone
" >> has one they would like to get rid off ?
" >>
" >> I can collect of course - I'm based near London.
" >>
" >> Just out of interest - how many of these monitors are still around - anyone
" >> still using them ?
" >
" > We have three or four at LSSM, in preparation for the opening of the
" > third exhibit floor which includes workstations. Those monitors have
" > become very difficult to find, due of course to people trashing them.
"
" Are these the ones with the DB9 that go to Sun3 framebuffers? If so, I
" have a pair of them to go with my Sun 3/110s and 3/60s.
"
" If not... which ones are they? :)

i assume they're talking about the older multi-bnc ones. i have one
which i haven't used in 2 decades, and while i'm closer to london than
to los angeles i'm afraid i can't help ian. i'm also far enough from
pittsburgh that i don't know how i'd get it to dave, much as i'd like
to donate it.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
***@an.bradford.ma.us and think what none thought
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[JP Hindin]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Sandwich Maker wrote:

> " From: JP Hindin <***@kiwigeek.com>
> "
> " On Tue, 13 Feb 2018, Dave McGuire wrote:
> " > On 02/13/2018 04:29 PM, Ian Frost wrote:
> " >> I have a small number of old Sun monochrome monitors, which Ibve managed to
> " >> keep working over the years despite a few capacitor blow outs, etc.
> " >>
> " >> I'd really like to get one of the old Sun 17/19" colour monitors from the
> " >> early SPARC era - I had one but gave it away a decade or more ago.
> " >>
> " >> So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if anyone
> " >> has one they would like to get rid off ?
> " >>
> " >> I can collect of course - I'm based near London.
> " >>
> " >> Just out of interest - how many of these monitors are still around - anyone
> " >> still using them ?
> " >
> " > We have three or four at LSSM, in preparation for the opening of the
> " > third exhibit floor which includes workstations. Those monitors have
> " > become very difficult to find, due of course to people trashing them.
> "
> " Are these the ones with the DB9 that go to Sun3 framebuffers? If so, I
> " have a pair of them to go with my Sun 3/110s and 3/60s.
> "
> " If not... which ones are they? :)
>
> i assume they're talking about the older multi-bnc ones. i have one
> which i haven't used in 2 decades, and while i'm closer to london than
> to los angeles i'm afraid i can't help ian. i'm also far enough from
> pittsburgh that i don't know how i'd get it to dave, much as i'd like
> to donate it.

Oh! Colour, _right_. I have one of those, it's (I believe) a GDM that's
been rebranded "Apollo". I think, actually, that works on the 3/110 and
the mono DB9'd ones are only for the 3/60s.

Hellfire, maybe I should go look when I go home tonight. It's been forever
since I fired any of the 3s up.

- JP
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Jochen Kunz]

Am 13.02.18 um 22:29 schrieb Ian Frost:
> So many of the the old CRTs seem to have been recycled - I wonder if anyone
> has one they would like to get rid off ?
>
> I can collect of course - Ibm based near London.
I still have one of those Sun re branded Sony Trinitron 20" tubes with
13W3 connector. Don't know the model. IIRC it is from the Ultra 1 days.
Free for pickup in Kaiserslautern, Germany.

p.s. My back broke a few years ago. I can't lift anything over 10 kg /
22 lbs. Man, I am so glad that we have LCDs now days instead of 20"
glass tubes, heavy as a boat anchor. Not to talk about the crisp
sharpness of a 220 dpi LCD...
--

tschC<C,
Jochen
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue

[Sandwich Maker]

" From: Patrick Giagnocavo <***@gmail.com>
"
" Yes, the interior of the CRT is coated with lead oxide. Breaking a
" tube will release this.

not fused with the glass envelope?

as i learned it, the voltage required by color crts made them into
passable x-ray generators; as a result, the us gov required the crt
face be made of lead glass.

i imagined the x-rays to be emitted in alignment with the electron
beam.

there's a passing nod to this in the simpson's ep where homer revisits
his childhood home and we see the shadow of where he used to lie in
front of the tv etched into the floor.

" On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 2:29 AM, Peter Stokes <***@ashlyn.co.uk> wrote:
" >
" >[]
" >
" > If I remember correctly there was also an environmental reason why folk moved
" > away from manufacture of CRTs, possibly to do with heavy metals or some such
" > reason?
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
***@an.bradford.ma.us and think what none thought
_______________________________________________
rescue list - http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue