Discussion:
[SunRescue] RE: chg subj. 4004's and nc mills
(too old to reply)
Ron Wickersham
2000-11-11 07:18:40 UTC
Permalink
What machine was the 4004 in???
it was a single-board computer, for embedded systems, and was the beginning
of the STD buss (which still exists - modified for 8-bit systems and with
an eisa-type double layer connector for 16-bits). we used it in a DRO
product for machine tools to handle in/mm and offsets.
What kind of NC equipment? I've been doing brass work with a CNC milling
machine recently. (Photos: www.cca.org/dave/gallery7.html)
we run a Lagun knee mill that has a slo-syn controller originally for
paper tape, with the commodore 64 (running COMAL) driving the internal
data buss (the control logic is 4000 series cmos (no lsi chips or cpu's)
and the other machine is an Excellon drilling machine for pc boards with
an even older GE MarkCentury controller with no ic's in the logic boards
but it does have a 702 op amp in each servo amp! in both cases i guess
the NC machines are now CNC (the computers do a lot more than just
buffer tape commands, they support even more than i see in standard
CNC controllers since you can program them).

nice brass designs. and nice raw postscript. also a raw postscript
writer here, but only for panel work. always wanted to make ghostscript
drive an nc machine but never got around to it. is that what you do?
or how did you get from postscript to g-code for the nc mill?
Alembic - what about.... what was that guy that spun off from Guild,
with the bizarre run-wires-off-both-ends-of-the-string pickup idea -
"Lane Poor" or something? Does he still make basses?
i'm not sure if he's still mfg instruments. both he and his brother
Robert worked for Alembic at one time, don't think he ever worked at
Guild.

###
A calculator!
Seriously, I don't think the 4004 was ever sold as part of a commercial
computer kit, but I think the 8008 may have been.
The 4004 was, IIRC, a 4 bit word computer chip... THe 8008 was 8 bit, and
no, the 8080 was not an 80 bit chip ;^)
right, i heard the guys who did it at intel were supposed to make a
calculator chip for commodore but couldn't resist making it a little
more general purpose. mind you it was a bit of a stretch to call it
a computer, since there were a lot of chips around it, but it did put
a big part of a computer all on the ALU unit.

-ron

Ron Wickersham
***@rfo.org ***@alembic.com
Robert Ferguson Observatory project Alembic, Inc.
Valley of the Moon Observatory Assn. The best Basses in the world
Ron Wickersham
2000-11-11 07:18:40 UTC
Permalink
What machine was the 4004 in???
it was a single-board computer, for embedded systems, and was the beginning
of the STD buss (which still exists - modified for 8-bit systems and with
an eisa-type double layer connector for 16-bits). we used it in a DRO
product for machine tools to handle in/mm and offsets.
What kind of NC equipment? I've been doing brass work with a CNC milling
machine recently. (Photos: www.cca.org/dave/gallery7.html)
we run a Lagun knee mill that has a slo-syn controller originally for
paper tape, with the commodore 64 (running COMAL) driving the internal
data buss (the control logic is 4000 series cmos (no lsi chips or cpu's)
and the other machine is an Excellon drilling machine for pc boards with
an even older GE MarkCentury controller with no ic's in the logic boards
but it does have a 702 op amp in each servo amp! in both cases i guess
the NC machines are now CNC (the computers do a lot more than just
buffer tape commands, they support even more than i see in standard
CNC controllers since you can program them).

nice brass designs. and nice raw postscript. also a raw postscript
writer here, but only for panel work. always wanted to make ghostscript
drive an nc machine but never got around to it. is that what you do?
or how did you get from postscript to g-code for the nc mill?
Alembic - what about.... what was that guy that spun off from Guild,
with the bizarre run-wires-off-both-ends-of-the-string pickup idea -
"Lane Poor" or something? Does he still make basses?
i'm not sure if he's still mfg instruments. both he and his brother
Robert worked for Alembic at one time, don't think he ever worked at
Guild.

###
A calculator!
Seriously, I don't think the 4004 was ever sold as part of a commercial
computer kit, but I think the 8008 may have been.
The 4004 was, IIRC, a 4 bit word computer chip... THe 8008 was 8 bit, and
no, the 8080 was not an 80 bit chip ;^)
right, i heard the guys who did it at intel were supposed to make a
calculator chip for commodore but couldn't resist making it a little
more general purpose. mind you it was a bit of a stretch to call it
a computer, since there were a lot of chips around it, but it did put
a big part of a computer all on the ALU unit.

-ron

Ron Wickersham
***@rfo.org ***@alembic.com
Robert Ferguson Observatory project Alembic, Inc.
Valley of the Moon Observatory Assn. The best Basses in the world
William Janssen
2000-11-11 17:40:45 UTC
Permalink
You don't have any spare paper tape readers / writers left over,
do you? :-)
I still have a paper tape reader somewhere in my shop/junk room.

Bill K7NOM
Ken Hansen
2000-11-11 19:10:19 UTC
Permalink
Paper tape readers are *simple* to make, assuming you have a steady arm...

All you need are 8-10 light sensors, patch them through a preprogrammed
EPROM as the address, and the 8 bit ASCII character set falls out the other
side as the data from the EEPROM.

There is a sprocket/alignment hole that runs down the middle of the tape, a
hole there would provide a "strobe line" to indicate a new character is
available.

As you pull the paper tape through, it will pass over the light sensors,
indicating the character punched on the tape - a steady hand would be
required.

HTH,

Ken
(Who would love to get an old teletype model 33 w/keyboard & paper
punch/read. Unix on a paper terminal would be a real experience! It would
give me a chance to learn the "ed" editor!)

(This is based on recollections from late 70's BYTE articles, as well as Don
Lancaster's TVT Cookbook (TVT = TeleVision Terminal, a terminal that output
composite video and used a small number of parts, less than 10 ICs IIRC) -
not actual experience.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Janssen" <***@calweb.com>
To: <***@sunhelp.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [SunRescue] RE: chg subj. 4004's and nc mills
Post by William Janssen
You don't have any spare paper tape readers / writers left over,
do you? :-)
I still have a paper tape reader somewhere in my shop/junk room.
Bill K7NOM
_______________________________________________
http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
William Janssen
2000-11-12 00:40:55 UTC
Permalink
There was a reader sold that was basically just as described below.

Bill K7NOM
Post by Ken Hansen
Paper tape readers are *simple* to make, assuming you have a steady arm...
All you need are 8-10 light sensors, patch them through a preprogrammed
EPROM as the address, and the 8 bit ASCII character set falls out the other
side as the data from the EEPROM.
There is a sprocket/alignment hole that runs down the middle of the tape, a
hole there would provide a "strobe line" to indicate a new character is
available.
As you pull the paper tape through, it will pass over the light sensors,
indicating the character punched on the tape - a steady hand would be
required.
HTH,
Ken
Ken Hansen
2000-11-12 13:58:11 UTC
Permalink
I remember - it was a nice looking unit (I had to sit out the homebrew ->
S-100 era of computing, as I was only in middle school at the time - I was
able to jump in around TRS-80 era, with some teletype access in the seventh
grade into Lawrence Berkley Labs).

Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Janssen" <***@calweb.com>
To: <***@sunhelp.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [SunRescue] RE: chg subj. 4004's and nc mills
Post by William Janssen
There was a reader sold that was basically just as described below.
Ken Hansen
2000-11-12 13:58:11 UTC
Permalink
I remember - it was a nice looking unit (I had to sit out the homebrew ->
S-100 era of computing, as I was only in middle school at the time - I was
able to jump in around TRS-80 era, with some teletype access in the seventh
grade into Lawrence Berkley Labs).

Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Janssen" <***@calweb.com>
To: <***@sunhelp.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: [SunRescue] RE: chg subj. 4004's and nc mills
Post by William Janssen
There was a reader sold that was basically just as described below.
William Janssen
2000-11-12 00:40:55 UTC
Permalink
There was a reader sold that was basically just as described below.

Bill K7NOM
Post by Ken Hansen
Paper tape readers are *simple* to make, assuming you have a steady arm...
All you need are 8-10 light sensors, patch them through a preprogrammed
EPROM as the address, and the 8 bit ASCII character set falls out the other
side as the data from the EEPROM.
There is a sprocket/alignment hole that runs down the middle of the tape, a
hole there would provide a "strobe line" to indicate a new character is
available.
As you pull the paper tape through, it will pass over the light sensors,
indicating the character punched on the tape - a steady hand would be
required.
HTH,
Ken
Ken Hansen
2000-11-11 19:10:19 UTC
Permalink
Paper tape readers are *simple* to make, assuming you have a steady arm...

All you need are 8-10 light sensors, patch them through a preprogrammed
EPROM as the address, and the 8 bit ASCII character set falls out the other
side as the data from the EEPROM.

There is a sprocket/alignment hole that runs down the middle of the tape, a
hole there would provide a "strobe line" to indicate a new character is
available.

As you pull the paper tape through, it will pass over the light sensors,
indicating the character punched on the tape - a steady hand would be
required.

HTH,

Ken
(Who would love to get an old teletype model 33 w/keyboard & paper
punch/read. Unix on a paper terminal would be a real experience! It would
give me a chance to learn the "ed" editor!)

(This is based on recollections from late 70's BYTE articles, as well as Don
Lancaster's TVT Cookbook (TVT = TeleVision Terminal, a terminal that output
composite video and used a small number of parts, less than 10 ICs IIRC) -
not actual experience.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Janssen" <***@calweb.com>
To: <***@sunhelp.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [SunRescue] RE: chg subj. 4004's and nc mills
Post by William Janssen
You don't have any spare paper tape readers / writers left over,
do you? :-)
I still have a paper tape reader somewhere in my shop/junk room.
Bill K7NOM
_______________________________________________
http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/rescue
William Janssen
2000-11-11 17:40:45 UTC
Permalink
You don't have any spare paper tape readers / writers left over,
do you? :-)
I still have a paper tape reader somewhere in my shop/junk room.

Bill K7NOM
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